Availability, or not, of First Class tickets is not the only factor in "selling" First Class tickets.  I have not travelled in First on GWR since the IETs appeared, to call the superior accommodation, First Class, is a sick joke. Just have a look at some photos of First in a GWR HST and compare that with today's pitiful - and grossly overpriced, offering.

The only half decent First Class in this day and age is in SWR's 159s - which I still buy !

 

Since GBR was first mooted I've been asking on this forum (where it's largely being enthusiastically anticipated) how it'll be better for customers and have yet to receive a meaningful response.

It's perhaps telling that one of the most well informed members of the Forum feels similarly in the dark!

 

I'm seeing First Class Advance from Bath Spa up to Paddington. However, looking for a journey I used to do by train heading west down to Cornwall, the booking engine borks out, says it 'can't find stuff, try again later', with a cheerful 'New search' button that resets the page so everything has to be entered again.

But for some reason, if the page is closed and the GWR site reopened, the page usefully populates itself with the details of the previous search.

Searching again for another journey I may do by train, the search, having prompted me to correctly identify both ends of  the trip, came back with 'Invalid destination'.

Mark

 

Serious concern at some of the developments. We are at a stage where it is ever more important to have a clear picture of where we are headed at a macro level and how that will be reflected at a more granular level. It would also be good to know how customer, wannabe-customer and campaigner inputs will be effectively gathered and used to inform positive and sustainable development.   Gee - I sound like ChatGPT, don't I?

 

So as we move towards GBR we can look forward to a policy of higher fares and fewer passengers. Perhaps not quite what people will be expecting from a Labour Government.

 

Maybe ... but the maths are very complex and I don't suppose anyone in the GWR fares section will be wanting to share the data.  Once we're under GBR, perhaps we can learn more under FOI!

I did some sums (I'm dangerous)

Let's say 10 people caught the PAD to PLY train first class at £104.50 - income £1045.   Now if that ticket is no longer available, perhaps 3 will pay £234.70 first class, and 5 will pay £74.90 off peak standard class.  That's two people who move away from rail completely, and income is still up - to £1078.60.    Seatfrog may take some money, and there's extra money to be made by selling rather than giving away cups of coffee.

Modern day electronics and ticketing add a different flexibily matrix which - err - I haven't tried to build into my example.

 

That doesn't reflect my experience. I often travel from Reading to Plymouth utilising Advance First class tickets in carriages which are no more than 15-20% full.

Those very same trains now appear to have no Advance First class tickets available - amongst other things, this facility encouraged people to travel by train on business as it gave a quieter and more spacious environment in which to work without incurring the enormous cost of "regular" First class tickets - this is why Avanti's "standard premium" is becoming so popular.

I suspect in the absence of these tickets people will simply downgrade to standard class instead, thereby reducing revenue.

 

Is it one of the ways that "the railway" is increasing its income from the same number of passengers while "not raising [regulated] fares"?

Advance fares were introduced to help fill seats on quieter trains, as I recall.  With trains getting so much busier and (we hear) services on Sundays being reduced, there are now and progressively will be fewer - far fewer - spare seats to offload.

 
I and others elsewhere are noting that since the change to the GWR booking engine, First class Advance tickets seem to have virtually disappeared and/or are only available on a few random services, has there been a conscious decision to do away with these by GWR?

 
I might venture an opinion that websites using Mixing Deck will become even more useful than at present when the new rules on ticket refunds come into force. There will be more and more people buying tickets at the last minute - and, as I said above, it would be nice to know in advance (no pun intended !) what you are going to have to pay and what ticket you are going to get.

 
SWR have a Mixing Desk too. No idea if it will still be around in the future.

https://tickets.southwesternrailway.com/sw/en/JourneyPlanning/MixingDeck

 

Dare I ask if this change will stay into 'nationalisation', or will GWR customers have to migrate onto another state run booking system in due course?

 
Many thanks for the responses. Redspottedhanky has it !  I'll keep RTT in mind if RSH vanishes too.

 
I find the LNER website very good for ticket purchase - also remembers your seating preferences etc -  and they are excellent when it comes to delay/repay payments - often within 48 hours.

https://www.lner.co.uk/

 
I find Realtimetickets (same place as Realtimetrains) useful for seeing actual ticket types.

 
The story is that it's a forced change for GWR (and some others) as their supplier, Worldline IT, is withdrawing from this market. However, Wordline do use the same engine on their own booking site, respottedhanky, at least for the time being.

 
I have long used the GWR Mixing Deck booking site to buy my train tickets. This now seems to have vanished. Can anyone tell me of another site which tells me exactly what TYPE of ticket I am buying for my money/planned journey ? Is Mixing Deck still available - I fear not, its too simple and gives too much useful info away !

Every other site I have tried so far gives me a fare but doesn't detail whether it's "anytime", "off peak", "super off peak", "evening out"   or what ever.

What I am trying ascertain is: if I turn up at my station to catch the 0740 to ?? what is the cheapest ticket I can buy for that service at that time ? That would be handy to know - in case I need a bank loan for when I get there !

Mixing Deck told me that, clearly and simply - the "new" websites are very glitzy but don't tell me what I wish to know